Songwriter 2 Songwriter: Jon Brooks interviews Rosemary
JB: First of all, I love how the songs on WHAT SINGS IN THE BLOOD seem to talk to each other; the CD feels more akin to a novel with songs as chapters. How much of this was by design and/or by creative intuition?
RP: Thanks, Jon. I'm glad you notice that. When I decided to do this project, I had about 30 songs I thought might be worth recording. Honing that down to ten or twelve was challenging at first, but at some point certain songs began to gravitate together. I realized those songs all had two common characteristics: first, each one seemed to represent a particular stage in the evolution of a life, physically, emotionally, or spiritually. Second, they all had some connection to the colour red. From that point, an overall vision of the album began to coalesce slowly, like tea leaves in the bottom of a cup. I had to do a lot of careful, inward listening to grasp the theme that was unfolding. I love that exercise, that listening. So in this case design was guided by intuition. And the song order was largely dictated by the stage of life, or learning, represented by each song... as you mentioned, they unfolded like chapters, with each song somehow suggesting the next. It was a very natural process.
JB: I remember the working title of WHAT SINGS IN THE BLOOD was "RED". And, as all themes should, yours is deeply layered without being obvious. RED as fire, light, love, passion, lust, birth, death, inspiration, anger, sin... Are we on the right track here?
RP: For sure. When I first noticed the "red thread" running through my recent work, I was startled; I could hardly ignore it, but I didn't immediately understand the significance of it. Eventually I came to see that the colour red represents both the sacred and the profane; it's both life-giving and life-taking. There's the deep, rose-pink of love and the muddy, burnt scarlet of rage. The songs reflect this duality and hint at the ways we drift from what's beautiful, essential, and lasting; how the red of vitality morphs into the red of violence. The lyrics whisper (or shout) about living in a way that our choices continually bring us back to what's real and true. Sometimes that's a difficult road. what sings in the blood acknowledges the struggle, but also the joys. And I firmly believe it's the joy - not the struggle - that's our true birthright.
JB: The most painful part about producing a new CD comes with the decision to "keep" this song but "cut" that one. What songs did you decide to cut? To what degree were these decisions based on "quality" or "theme" or both?
RP: In our effort to keep the album at a reasonable length, Jason (sideman/co-producer Jason LaPrade) and I cut "Mercy Rules", "Autumn Song" and several others from the project. It was hard to do that, as they were all in harmony with the emerging theme. Sometimes the reason was as simple as knowing a song would find a good home on another project. Other than that, the tracks that made the final cut for the album were the ones that wouldn't let go of each other no matter what. Beyond flowing with the theme, those songs seemed to share a common spark. We all experience wonder-filled, "aha" moments in our lives, but so often we sweep them under the table because we can't immediately find a way to fit them into the so-called "reality" of our daily life. I think this is a tragedy! I believe so much of life IS IN those brief, luminous moments. We can gain so much by cherishing and cultivating them. I can't help but want to acknowledge those little (and large) day-to-day epiphanies, lift them up and amplify them. That's the spark I wanted to bring to the table with this project.
JB: On rare occasion we all seem capable of writing those "essential" songs, songs that, as Guy Clark once observed, "write us". I recall John Fogarty talking about PROUD MARY and his feeling, the second after he completed it, that he'd just written an American classic. I suspect that's the case with THREE WISHES?
RP: (Laughs) Well, I'm pretty sure "Three Wishes" is in no danger of becoming an American classic! But seriously, I think sometimes when the song "writes us", it's just because we've unconsciously been holding the seed-germ of it inside us for a long while. Then comes a moment when something triggers its release, its blossoming. That was probably the case with "Three Wishes."
JB: I realized only recently the futility in the question of "influences". Why? Because no matter what influence I name, there's something lacking in their work for me. If I could name a songwriter doing exactly what I'm trying to do, it's unlikely I'd feel compelled to write another song. So: rather than asking your influences, what's missing for you in your favourite 3 songwriters' songs?
RP: I love your questions, Jon! One songwriter I think very highly of is an amazing lyric and tune writer who for whatever reason, doesn't address some of the more urgent issues of life I feel compelled to write about. Another songwriter I greatly admire presents those issues absolutely brilliantly, both lyrically and musically. He has a wonderfully scholarly, cerebral way of getting at the heart of things, whereas my approach is mostly intuitive. Another songwriter whose work really resonates with me lives in the States. I suppose if she ever starts to perform up here with any regularity I'll consider hanging up my instruments and going back to full-time nursing! Right now I'm feeling there might be room for my songs out there... time will tell.
JB: If your life were a movie, who would play your part?
RP: Charles Wallace Murry from Madeleine L'Engle's time trilogy would be my pick. He's my secret twin (the smart one.) That said, my sister thinks it should be Catherine Keener, and sisters always know what's best (right?)
JB: Throughout my favourite CDs I hear a common pulse - a consistent "beat and/or tone", a visceral sense of unity. I'm thinking of Joni Mitchell's BLUE; of Neil Young's TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT; of Van Morrison's VEEDON FLEECE; of Nick Cave's THE BOATMAN'S CALL- the list goes on... Whatever the pulse may be, it will elicit varied responses in your audience, but for you, what is that pulse in WHAT SINGS IN THE BLOOD?
RP: For me, it murmurs, "We're here, seemingly small beings on a small planet, yet we're all part of something far greater; we each have a place and a part to play. That something courses through our very blood, our heartbeat, our breath. I believe it's in the embrace of that inner tide that we find our most brilliant individuality and our longed-for interconnectedness, all at the same time. There's a timeless sense of place, of belonging. Life becomes really alive.
JB: I'm a big fan of "dumb questions" - and contrary to accepted wisdom, such questions are possible. "Dumb questions" inspire passionate responses from people and it's in such responses I find the seeds of new songs. Where do you find the seeds for your songs? What do they tend to look like?
RP: Oh, man - the seeds are everywhere! And apart from all the frightening issues confronting us today, aside from all of our individual and collective joys and sorrows, I have a savings account filled with unrealized songs. Working as a community nurse in a large urban centre, I probably have enough stories worth honouring to keep me in business as an honest writer for the rest of my life. Learning to know a city intimately, from behind thousands of its closed doors (fine, wrought-iron doors, dangerous, condemned doors, and in some cases - no doors), has been an incalculable privilege. The relationship that grows between two human beings, one a caregiver, the other a suffering stranger, each vulnerable, each teaching the other, is filled with grace. OK, I just rendered myself speechless, remembering all those people I have loved and learned so much from.
JB: What book have you just finished reading?
RP: I just re-read The Sacred Tree, by Judi Bopp, et al. It's a First Nations school textbook I picked up once on a trip to Wikwemikong (on Manitoulin Island). I wish every kid could read it; it provides so much wise guidance for living a good life, regardless of religious, cultural or ethnic background. (Dear parents: please buy this book for your children.)
JB: What book will you read next?
RP: I'll return to Symphonia, the poetry and songs of Hildegard von Bingen, if you ever give it back. *laughs*
JB: What book(s) have you thrown passionately against the wall?
RP: The first, as a young child, was The Yearling, by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings. In fact, I think I tore it up, bit by bit. It took me years to recover from that book. It was my initiation into the reality that many things are out of harmony in this world, and I guess I felt the hit came too soon.
JB: Rosemary Phelan's list of the 20 best songs ever written:
RP: Wow, that's the toughest question ever; it could take weeks of pondering to answer! In the interest of sanity, maybe I could just mention a few songs that have left an indelible imprint on me. Some of these would definitely find a place on my list of "best songs ever written." First and foremost would be birdsong, every day, everywhere. Some others are Ah Tutti Contenti (the "forgiveness aria" from Le Nozze di Figaro) by Mozart; Down In Mississippi, by Mavis Staples; A Row of Small Trees, Garnet Rogers; One Winter's Night by the incredible group Strength In Numbers; Neil Young's Ohio; Flesh and Blood, by Johnny Cash; Halfway to Somewhere, Jason LaPrade; I Shall Not Walk Alone, by Ben Harper; Mercy, by yourself (Jon Brooks); Torn Screen Door, David Francey; Nature Boy by Nat King Cole; O Frondens Virga, Hildegard von Bingen; The Magdalene Laundries, Joni Mitchell; Spiegel Im Spiegel, Arvo Part; Wayfaring Stranger, as performed by Ola Belle Reed... I could go on for days!
JB: I've been known to regard today's songwriter as an artist typically dismissed as society's lapdog: submissive, ornamental, inconsequential, cute and always happy to jump up for free. Some of us accept the part, some of us resist. Either way, I sense that songs are losing their value as serious means toward uniting people. Do you agree?
RP: I think the songs that can unite and heal us are here - maybe more than ever. In the big picture though, they're smothered in a dense, pervasive cloud of noise and images. It's a challenge to hear and see the things of real value, in all that dross. Often we find ourselves pulled right into the muck; it's overwhelming, and we become numb. But if we stay awake, hope and understanding are here, always speaking to us (music aside, just look at the resilience of nature!) The world is full of brilliant creators; musicians, painters, writers, teachers, parents, leaders, givers of all kinds; their work burns holes in that chaotic cloud and allows fragments of light to pass through. We desperately need that light, to help us see clearly so we can make good choices. It's more important than ever for us as artists to use whatever platforms are available to acknowledge those things that are truly worth striving for, to hold them up in plain sight. Whether we see our work make an immediate difference in the world around us or not, we can't be silent, and we can't give up.
JB: What question about your songs and purpose do you hope I won't ask?
RP: "Who are your influences," and "why do you write?" You had the good sense not to, so thanks!
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RP: Thanks, Jon. I'm glad you notice that. When I decided to do this project, I had about 30 songs I thought might be worth recording. Honing that down to ten or twelve was challenging at first, but at some point certain songs began to gravitate together. I realized those songs all had two common characteristics: first, each one seemed to represent a particular stage in the evolution of a life, physically, emotionally, or spiritually. Second, they all had some connection to the colour red. From that point, an overall vision of the album began to coalesce slowly, like tea leaves in the bottom of a cup. I had to do a lot of careful, inward listening to grasp the theme that was unfolding. I love that exercise, that listening. So in this case design was guided by intuition. And the song order was largely dictated by the stage of life, or learning, represented by each song... as you mentioned, they unfolded like chapters, with each song somehow suggesting the next. It was a very natural process.
JB: I remember the working title of WHAT SINGS IN THE BLOOD was "RED". And, as all themes should, yours is deeply layered without being obvious. RED as fire, light, love, passion, lust, birth, death, inspiration, anger, sin... Are we on the right track here?
RP: For sure. When I first noticed the "red thread" running through my recent work, I was startled; I could hardly ignore it, but I didn't immediately understand the significance of it. Eventually I came to see that the colour red represents both the sacred and the profane; it's both life-giving and life-taking. There's the deep, rose-pink of love and the muddy, burnt scarlet of rage. The songs reflect this duality and hint at the ways we drift from what's beautiful, essential, and lasting; how the red of vitality morphs into the red of violence. The lyrics whisper (or shout) about living in a way that our choices continually bring us back to what's real and true. Sometimes that's a difficult road. what sings in the blood acknowledges the struggle, but also the joys. And I firmly believe it's the joy - not the struggle - that's our true birthright.
JB: The most painful part about producing a new CD comes with the decision to "keep" this song but "cut" that one. What songs did you decide to cut? To what degree were these decisions based on "quality" or "theme" or both?
RP: In our effort to keep the album at a reasonable length, Jason (sideman/co-producer Jason LaPrade) and I cut "Mercy Rules", "Autumn Song" and several others from the project. It was hard to do that, as they were all in harmony with the emerging theme. Sometimes the reason was as simple as knowing a song would find a good home on another project. Other than that, the tracks that made the final cut for the album were the ones that wouldn't let go of each other no matter what. Beyond flowing with the theme, those songs seemed to share a common spark. We all experience wonder-filled, "aha" moments in our lives, but so often we sweep them under the table because we can't immediately find a way to fit them into the so-called "reality" of our daily life. I think this is a tragedy! I believe so much of life IS IN those brief, luminous moments. We can gain so much by cherishing and cultivating them. I can't help but want to acknowledge those little (and large) day-to-day epiphanies, lift them up and amplify them. That's the spark I wanted to bring to the table with this project.
JB: On rare occasion we all seem capable of writing those "essential" songs, songs that, as Guy Clark once observed, "write us". I recall John Fogarty talking about PROUD MARY and his feeling, the second after he completed it, that he'd just written an American classic. I suspect that's the case with THREE WISHES?
RP: (Laughs) Well, I'm pretty sure "Three Wishes" is in no danger of becoming an American classic! But seriously, I think sometimes when the song "writes us", it's just because we've unconsciously been holding the seed-germ of it inside us for a long while. Then comes a moment when something triggers its release, its blossoming. That was probably the case with "Three Wishes."
JB: I realized only recently the futility in the question of "influences". Why? Because no matter what influence I name, there's something lacking in their work for me. If I could name a songwriter doing exactly what I'm trying to do, it's unlikely I'd feel compelled to write another song. So: rather than asking your influences, what's missing for you in your favourite 3 songwriters' songs?
RP: I love your questions, Jon! One songwriter I think very highly of is an amazing lyric and tune writer who for whatever reason, doesn't address some of the more urgent issues of life I feel compelled to write about. Another songwriter I greatly admire presents those issues absolutely brilliantly, both lyrically and musically. He has a wonderfully scholarly, cerebral way of getting at the heart of things, whereas my approach is mostly intuitive. Another songwriter whose work really resonates with me lives in the States. I suppose if she ever starts to perform up here with any regularity I'll consider hanging up my instruments and going back to full-time nursing! Right now I'm feeling there might be room for my songs out there... time will tell.
JB: If your life were a movie, who would play your part?
RP: Charles Wallace Murry from Madeleine L'Engle's time trilogy would be my pick. He's my secret twin (the smart one.) That said, my sister thinks it should be Catherine Keener, and sisters always know what's best (right?)
JB: Throughout my favourite CDs I hear a common pulse - a consistent "beat and/or tone", a visceral sense of unity. I'm thinking of Joni Mitchell's BLUE; of Neil Young's TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT; of Van Morrison's VEEDON FLEECE; of Nick Cave's THE BOATMAN'S CALL- the list goes on... Whatever the pulse may be, it will elicit varied responses in your audience, but for you, what is that pulse in WHAT SINGS IN THE BLOOD?
RP: For me, it murmurs, "We're here, seemingly small beings on a small planet, yet we're all part of something far greater; we each have a place and a part to play. That something courses through our very blood, our heartbeat, our breath. I believe it's in the embrace of that inner tide that we find our most brilliant individuality and our longed-for interconnectedness, all at the same time. There's a timeless sense of place, of belonging. Life becomes really alive.
JB: I'm a big fan of "dumb questions" - and contrary to accepted wisdom, such questions are possible. "Dumb questions" inspire passionate responses from people and it's in such responses I find the seeds of new songs. Where do you find the seeds for your songs? What do they tend to look like?
RP: Oh, man - the seeds are everywhere! And apart from all the frightening issues confronting us today, aside from all of our individual and collective joys and sorrows, I have a savings account filled with unrealized songs. Working as a community nurse in a large urban centre, I probably have enough stories worth honouring to keep me in business as an honest writer for the rest of my life. Learning to know a city intimately, from behind thousands of its closed doors (fine, wrought-iron doors, dangerous, condemned doors, and in some cases - no doors), has been an incalculable privilege. The relationship that grows between two human beings, one a caregiver, the other a suffering stranger, each vulnerable, each teaching the other, is filled with grace. OK, I just rendered myself speechless, remembering all those people I have loved and learned so much from.
JB: What book have you just finished reading?
RP: I just re-read The Sacred Tree, by Judi Bopp, et al. It's a First Nations school textbook I picked up once on a trip to Wikwemikong (on Manitoulin Island). I wish every kid could read it; it provides so much wise guidance for living a good life, regardless of religious, cultural or ethnic background. (Dear parents: please buy this book for your children.)
JB: What book will you read next?
RP: I'll return to Symphonia, the poetry and songs of Hildegard von Bingen, if you ever give it back. *laughs*
JB: What book(s) have you thrown passionately against the wall?
RP: The first, as a young child, was The Yearling, by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings. In fact, I think I tore it up, bit by bit. It took me years to recover from that book. It was my initiation into the reality that many things are out of harmony in this world, and I guess I felt the hit came too soon.
JB: Rosemary Phelan's list of the 20 best songs ever written:
RP: Wow, that's the toughest question ever; it could take weeks of pondering to answer! In the interest of sanity, maybe I could just mention a few songs that have left an indelible imprint on me. Some of these would definitely find a place on my list of "best songs ever written." First and foremost would be birdsong, every day, everywhere. Some others are Ah Tutti Contenti (the "forgiveness aria" from Le Nozze di Figaro) by Mozart; Down In Mississippi, by Mavis Staples; A Row of Small Trees, Garnet Rogers; One Winter's Night by the incredible group Strength In Numbers; Neil Young's Ohio; Flesh and Blood, by Johnny Cash; Halfway to Somewhere, Jason LaPrade; I Shall Not Walk Alone, by Ben Harper; Mercy, by yourself (Jon Brooks); Torn Screen Door, David Francey; Nature Boy by Nat King Cole; O Frondens Virga, Hildegard von Bingen; The Magdalene Laundries, Joni Mitchell; Spiegel Im Spiegel, Arvo Part; Wayfaring Stranger, as performed by Ola Belle Reed... I could go on for days!
JB: I've been known to regard today's songwriter as an artist typically dismissed as society's lapdog: submissive, ornamental, inconsequential, cute and always happy to jump up for free. Some of us accept the part, some of us resist. Either way, I sense that songs are losing their value as serious means toward uniting people. Do you agree?
RP: I think the songs that can unite and heal us are here - maybe more than ever. In the big picture though, they're smothered in a dense, pervasive cloud of noise and images. It's a challenge to hear and see the things of real value, in all that dross. Often we find ourselves pulled right into the muck; it's overwhelming, and we become numb. But if we stay awake, hope and understanding are here, always speaking to us (music aside, just look at the resilience of nature!) The world is full of brilliant creators; musicians, painters, writers, teachers, parents, leaders, givers of all kinds; their work burns holes in that chaotic cloud and allows fragments of light to pass through. We desperately need that light, to help us see clearly so we can make good choices. It's more important than ever for us as artists to use whatever platforms are available to acknowledge those things that are truly worth striving for, to hold them up in plain sight. Whether we see our work make an immediate difference in the world around us or not, we can't be silent, and we can't give up.
JB: What question about your songs and purpose do you hope I won't ask?
RP: "Who are your influences," and "why do you write?" You had the good sense not to, so thanks!
(BACK TO PRESS PAGE)